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Plaid Cymru keen on Euro future says David Wigley

By South Wales Evening Post  |  Posted: May 11, 2014

Comments (25)

PLAID Cymru big hitter Dafydd Wigley last night rounded on Ukip, branding it a destabilising force.

The former party president called on voters to protect what was good about Europe ahead of the forthcoming European elections.

He described the threat of pulling out of the EU as a course of action that would have disastrous and destabilising consequences for Wales and the nation's economy.

"For Ukip, the point of holding a referendum is to pull the countries of Britain out of the EU," he said in Merthyr. "So I understand why those who want to turn their backs on Europe should want a referendum. I don't want Wales, or Britain, to pull out of the EU."

And he warned Welsh voters against channelling any frustrations about aspects of European policy by voting Ukip.

"Ukip is a single issue party, whose answer to every question is to press the self-destruct button on European unity and co-operation," he said.

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  • eurosceptic  |  May 17 2014, 10:35PM

    "So I understand why those who want to turn their backs on Europe should want a referendum. I don't want Wales, or Britain, to pull out of the EU." - Dafydd Wigley Says it all really - Dafydd Wigley has clearly never heard of democracy! Dafydd Wigley is clearly in the pocket of the EU and he is completely out of touch with the real world that the majority of Welsh voters actually live in. Perhaps someone should remind him Wales is a democratic society. ONE man only gets ONE vote, (including Dafydd Wigley). Everyone else (as well as Dafydd Wigley) has a right to vote too (and not necessarily for Plaid Cymru)! Many Welsh people disagree with Dafydd's attitude about Wales, or Britain pulling out of the EU and they have a right to be heard. Dafydd Wigley has no right to deny them that right. That is why if the Welsh people want a clear unambiguous in/out referendum on the EU, the only party to vote for is UKIP.

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  • Zoomer  |  May 14 2014, 8:56PM

    Gwyddno The four stars below are what rises to the surface when you smelt steel. The EP filter kicking in.

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  • Zoomer  |  May 14 2014, 8:52PM

    Gwyddno Exit from the EU will bring benefits to the UK. We are a trading Nation and are able to trade across the World. If we do decide to exit, every country within the EU will want to set up a trading agreement with us. We have had a trade deficit with the EU for over a decade. They need us, ok. Watch this space next week. With regard to your comment about Age Cymru. I have been on many Benefits Courses with what was Age Concern, the Benefits Agency and others. I have secured £thousands for the frail and elderly in Income support claims, Attendance Allowance claims, Disability claims, and mental health funding claims. I have also acted on behalf of disabled and elderly clients in Benefits Tribunals and assisted in Power of Attorney procedures. I did it for 14 years. Do you want to **** me off further ?

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  • Zoomer  |  May 14 2014, 8:41PM

    cymro82 Needs must. When the Barnett Formula was devised in the 1970's. Why have a Barnett Formula ? Why didn't the Treasury just give an equal amount of money, per capita, to each region within the UK ? A £100 for you, and a £100 for you, and a £100 for you, etc, etc. In fact the monies given to the regions, on a base rate of 100%, was approx. 127% Northern Ireland, 117% Scotland, 111% Wales and 97% England. Over the years, the figures have fluctuated somewhat, but they remain at around these rates. The Barnett Formula, was only going to be around for a few years. It's still with us nearly 40 years later, and will probably still be around for longer, if Scotland remains within the UK. Should there be more money for the Treasury to allocate around the UK, should we leave, or even renegotiate terms with the EU. The chances are that some form of Barnett Formula will decide where those extra monies we are saving, are spent. You mention HS2. From what I've read recently, HS2 is losing favour now that the real costs are becoming apparent, and is under the skids. With regard to EU grants to organisations within the UK. Every £23 in grant that we receive, costs us £55. Doesn't seem like a very good deal. for the UK. It's ok if you're an Eastern European country and pay hardly anything into the EU, more please !

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  • cymro82  |  May 14 2014, 12:23PM

    Zoomer: you obviously don't know what you're talking about. Lord Barnett only saw the Barnett Formula lasting for a little time and it was created on population, not "need" as you say. Plaid Cymru over many many years have demanded that the Barnett Formula be reformed so that it is based on need as Wales was losing out on around £300million per year...so billions over its lifetime. Then when Labour was voted out of Westminster Government, but was still in the Assembly in 2010...they then started to complain about the Barnett Formula...they had 13 years to reform it when they were in power...now all Labour do is complain about the Lib Dems and Tories not giving wales enough money and yet they could have done something about it when they were in power in London. At the same time Labour in Englandf (and Scotland) are reluctant to call for Barnett reform because well there's a Scottish referendum coming up and Scotland would lose billions of pounds because they gain the most from it. You say that if we came out of Europe that the money the UK pay in will just be distributed out...what equally? This is just speculation...no proof or facts. Wales would lose millions of pounds it currently gets every year from the EU and there is nothing to say we would get that automatically from the UK. Just look at the HS2 (High Speed Rail) they are proposing in England...we should be getting billions in Wales as a consequence, but they state the rail line through just England will benefit Wales...how??? Then there was the London Olympics where we did not get our fair share as they said it would benefit the whole of the UK even though most of the money went to the south east of England and we in Wales didn't even get much of the contracts for our businesses...plus there's the Olympic legacy...oh yeah a legacy where our leisure centres are being cut and football/rugby teams now have to pay large sums to play their sports (see Labour/Ind-run Carmarthenshire Council). We benefit from the EU...we don't benefit much from the UK. The UK is too centralised in London and the south east and places like Wales and the northern regions of England are losing out.

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  • Gwyddno  |  May 14 2014, 10:12AM

    Zoomer: Please stop informing us how economically illiterate you are. Cameron says all sorts of things. Saying "that money will be found, whatever it costs" is no different from "we're all in this together". Going back to your previous gobbledegook, you seem to be under the illusion that exit from the EU will bring benefits to the UK - Well that is a dangerous myth which does not stand the test of reason. As for 22 May, if voters choose people hell-bent on getting the worst deal for Britain in the EU then it shows that no-one should underestimate the stupidity of the electorate. btw: I looked at your comments on the Age Concern piece and note that you're clueless about the benefits system also - No big surprise.

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  • Zoomer  |  May 14 2014, 9:44AM

    Gwyddno The Treasury always has a surplus, it's called " their slush fund". A recent example of " slush fund" usage is when the Prime Minister stood up and stated, whilst in the West Country floods, " that money will be found, whatever it costs". The Welsh Government has a " slush fund ". The Welsh Government is almost always pleading poverty, due to the " London Government" cuts, but dipped into their " slush fund " to fork out £52 million to by Cardiff Airport ! Slush Funds are for extra-ordinary events, all Governments have them, but try and keep quiet about them. Anyway, you only have to wait another week for the British voters to send a message, or not, to 10 Downing Street. Don't be surprised to see the Prime Minister on tv saying, " ok, I get it ".

  • Gwyddno  |  May 13 2014, 8:37PM

    Zoomer: You're in the realm of whatiffery and seeing as you've mentioned the Treasury having a surplus you clearly have no idea about how the system functions. Why do you waste your time posting comments that collapse quicker than it takes you to build them?

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  • Zoomer  |  May 13 2014, 7:55PM

    Gwyddno If we exit the EU. Where is all the money that we would have paid out into the EU, as our membership fee, going to go ? It's not going to the UN, or any other foreign organisation, it's not going to remain within the Treasury, it's too much, some or all of it will find its way to the regions within the UK. Ok, so how is the UK government going to dish out that extra money to the public purse, within the UK. Answer, until something else comes along, any extra money will be distributed via the Barnet Formula. No doubt if Scotland decides to become Independent, then the Barnet Formula will have to be altered to suit the new shape and fortunes of the remainder of the UK. The Barnet Formula was never intended to have anything whatsoever to do with organisations outside the UK. It's a purely internal method of " easily " dividing up the available funds within the UK, depending on needs. Whatever surpluses there are available at the Treasury, Wales receives about 6% of that sum. This is worked out on a population and needs formulae. At the moment, there is no other method of determining how much Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and England should receive from government funds, according to needs. If for example, the EU were running scared, and they decided that this year, we could have a free membership year. How do you think the UK government would spend that money. The Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish governments would be onto the Prime Minister like a ton of bricks for the free years membership fee to be apportioned by the Barnet Formula. It's the only method of slicing up the UK financial pie of whatever size, we have. There's nothing else.

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  • Gwyddno  |  May 13 2014, 5:11PM

    Zoomer: Seeing as the Barnet formula has nothing to do with the EU, please tell us if you thought up the tosh on your own or whether you found the nonsense elsewhere. EU membership is a national issue just like the Ministry of Defence is a national issue. Expenditure by the MoD is not used to calculate how much the devolved areas get and neither is our EU membership. What you have posted is wishful thinking and has much reality as fairy dust.

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