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Campaigners' bitter disappointment over Mynydd y Gwair approval

By South Wales Evening Post  |  Posted: February 09, 2013

By liz perkins

Glyn Morgan

Glyn Morgan

Comments (23)

CAMPAIGNERS have spoken of their bitter disappointment at losing their 10-year fight against siting a wind farm on a Swansea mountain.

Glyn Morgan, chairman of Save Our Common Mountain Environment, said the group wished Swansea Council had taken its views more into account when making a decision over the Mynydd y Gwair plan.

But Mr Morgan, who gave a 15-minute presentation at the Swansea Council planning meeting in the Civic Centre over the scheme, did say he believed the debate was "fair."

He said: "We are very disappointed as we fought the scheme for the past 10 years.

"We are disappointed in Swansea Council for totally ignoring the people and the farmers who depend on Mynydd y Gwair.

"I thought it was a fair debate in the chamber but we thought the emphasis was more on the cost than the landscape."

He said he believed opportunities might arise in the future to challenge the scheme as planning permission was sought for various stages of development.

"At the moment we have to regroup and we will have to decide what we intend doing," he said.

"The developer will have to apply for planning on common land.

"The common land issue is one they need to address and they have not been addressed.

"There's another tranch of planning which they will need to go through as well.

"I do not know what the outcome will be."

He said the feeling among the commoners was that they were unhappy with the decision.

Mr Morgan revealed during the meeting that the land had grazing rights with 120 commoners with flocks of sheep and cattle.

He said: "The turbines will be twice the size of the DVLA and 20 metres higher than the Meridian Tower in Swansea."

Farmer Frank Jones, of Cwmcerdinen, who was inspired to return to Wales by his grandparents, who were farmers, said Mynydd y Gwair was the "last unspoilt wilderness in the area."

He said the feeling among the commoners was that they were unhappy at the way in which Swansea Council had been directed to approve the scheme by planners.

Members were advised by not approving the scheme that they "run the risk of acting unreasonably".

Mr Jones said the strength of feeling against the scheme was widespread from Morriston to Pontarddulais.

And he said they were also unhappy about comments made by Llansamlet Councillor Uta Clay, who suggested that the only people represented in the public gallery were older and that only the privileged could afford to live in the area.

Mr Jones said: "People have contributed a lot of money to fight this development — and people in ordinary houses have contributed.

"For farmers this has been their livelihood."

He added: "Forty-four years ago I looked at this farm and the hills in the distance and saw the pristine hills and thought that nothing could happen here.

"I could never imagine that someone could obliterate this with wind turbines.

"There was no mention of the people during the planning meeting, they just showed aerial views of the land.

"Our commoners' rights have been there for hundreds and hundreds of years — no one can disturb the common."

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23 comments

  • jimmybont  |  February 11 2013, 1:35PM

    how about planting trees to mop up CO2 which is CLAIMED to be causing global warming? Wales is being used by English landlords (Duke of Beaufort in this case) & the UK Govt. to provide energy for England and line their pockets in subsidies. Local jobs?? I doubt it. Or will the new workers buy property here therefore making them 'local'. Wales produces far more more energy than needed for her 3m population. What a difference this will make when China, USA, India pump out this 'deadly' CO2. No worries... Mynydd y Gwair will single handedly save the planet!!!"

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  • notowind  |  February 11 2013, 10:12AM

    Zoomer, I would add that the approx populations of the area around the Cotswolds , where the Duke of Beaufort resides and has his 75 square mile Badminton Estate is......Wilts 600,000 ; Glos 600,000 and Hereford and Worcs 750,000. So that totals 1,950,000 APPROX[ my figures are old]. Well, that is almost 2 million....whilst there are only 3 million in the WHOLE of Wales. But, ask yourselves....HOW MANY WIND TURBINES ARE THERE LOCATED IN THOSE ENGLISH COUNTIES?? ONLY ONE 200 FT ONE NEAR STROUD , AS FAR AS I AM AWARE.[ THERE MAY BE A HANDFUL NOW, NEAR SWINDON.] BUT THAT AREA HAS TWO THIRDS THE POPULATION OF WALES.........AND WALES ALREADY HAS HUNDREDS OF WIND TURBINES...... WITH THOUSANDS OF HUGE ONES IN THE PIPELINE !! LLANDINAM IN POWYS HAS HAD 103 WIND GENERATORS SINCE ABOUT 1995......SERVING THE WEST MIDLANDS !! NOW THEY WANT TO WRECK MONTGOMERYSHIRE WITH 700 MONSTERS 475 FT HIGH TO SERVE MANCHESTER !! SINCE WALES ONLY USES 2000MW....AND PEMBROKE GAS FIRED POWER STATION PRODUCES THAT ON ITS OWN........WITHOUT ABERTHAW, BAGLAN, USKMOUTH, DEESIDE 2 ET AL.... OVER 5000MW ......THEN IT FOLLOWS THAT ALL WIND ENERGY IN WALES SERVES ENGLAND..........AND THIS MULTI-MILLIONAIRE ENGLISH DUKE OF BEAUFORT .....WITH A PHENOMENAL ESTATE OF 75 SQ MILES IN WILTS AND GLOS.......ROYAL GLOUCESTERSHIRE......OF COURSE.......HAS NOT ONE WIND GENERATOR ON HIS ENGLISH LANDS.......WHILST HE WANTS TO ADD TO THE HUNDREDS IN WALES.......SUPPLYING ENGLAND !!!..........AND THE PEOPLE OF WALES ARE FILLING HIS POCKETS WITH SUBSIDIES.........JUST LIKE THEY PAID HIS SOMERSET TRUST £250,000 JUST FOR THE WAYLEAVE........THE RIGHT.......TO BUILD A FOOTBRIDGE ACROSS THE RIVER TAWE NEAR THE LIBERTY STADIUM !! YES.....WE PAID HIM......AS "LORD OF GOWER" .....FOR THAT RIGHT !! NOW THE OSPREYS......BECAUSE THEY ARE IN HIS POCKET VIA PARTNERS-IN-CRIME N-POWER.......HAVE EVEN SPOKEN UP FOR THESE WIND TURBINES ON MYNYDD Y GWAIR .....THROUGH A "BOUGHT" NEW ZEALAND COACH WHO HAS BEEN IN WALES 5 MINUTES !! WHAT A DISGRACE !! WHY ARE THE PEOPLE OF SOUTH WALES ACCEPTING THIS DISGUSTING SITUATION ?? WHY IS THE DUKE OF NIMBY BEING ALLOWED TO GET AWAY WITH IT?????

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  • notowind  |  February 11 2013, 3:45AM

    Zoomer, Actually I know that the blades are made of glass fibre. However , the nacelles and towers are made of steel. I knew somebody would be pedantic about my EXACT description. Mynydd y Gwair [ like the rest] "wind turbines" are NOT "TURBINES" either.....they are wind generators. But I use "wind turbines" because that is what they are called by the non-technical greenie set that want them across Wales ......without understanding ANYTHING ABOUT ELECTRICITY.......ARITHMETIC.....OR ANYTHING TECHNICAL !! If they bring 3MW machines to Mynydd y Gwair ...they will be AT LEAST 475 ft high. What is Kilvey Hill above sea level ? About 550 ft from memory....and without checking ? You talk about putting wind generators around London's M25!!....Do you realise HOW MANY south east England would need ?? Here are APPROXIMATE populations :- Berks 810,000 ; Bedfordshire 600,000 ; Bucks 690,000; Surrey 1,100,000 ; E Sussex 750,000 ; W Sussex 750,000; Oxon 650,000; Essex 1,650,000 ; Kent 1,600,000 ; Greater London 7,100,000.; Cambs 750,000 Herts 1,050,000. Now, those are OLD stats .....but they amount to APPROX 17,500,000 PEOPLE.......WITHOUT EAST ANGLIA AND HANTS !! THAT IS......NEAR AS DAMMIT....A THIRD OF THE POPULATION OF ENGLAND ! SO THAT AREA........ROUGHLY.......NOT PRECISELY ....NEEDS 17000MW IN COLD WINTER WEATHER . Take the TOKEN WIND GENERATOR AT READING........AND THAT IS ALL IT IS.....A MERE TOKEN TO FOOL COMPLETELY INNUMERATE, NON-TECHNICAL IMBECILES [ they may be very well spoken, mind, with plums in their mouths and a Public School education........BUT THEY ARE STILL COMPLETE IMBECILES !!!] THAT THEY ARE DOING THEIR "BIT" !! To return.....That token Reading machine is 400 ft high, so I will assume it has an installed capacity of 2 megawatts. Therefore, IF READING WAS AS WINDY AS WALES.......AND IT IS NOT.......IT WOULD ONLY GENERATE 0.5MW ON AVERAGE !! THEREFORE , IT FOLLOWS THAT TO POWER THE ABOVE REGION OF ENGLAND , USING WIND ENERGY, WOULD NEED 34,000 OF THOSE MONSTER MACHINES........GOT THAT ?? THIRTY FOUR THOUSAND OF THEM .....BECAUSE THEY WOULD ONLY GENERATE ....HALF A LOUSY MEGAWATT EACH......EVEN IF THEY WERE IN "WINDY" AREAS OF WALES !! THAT FACT CAN BE PROVEN......BECAUSE THESE MACHINES AVERAGE 25 PER CENT OF INSTALLED CAPACITY IN WINDY AREAS OF THE UK !! NOW THAT AREA OF ENGLAND COVERS 10,222 SQUARE MILES.....AND IT NEEDS 34,000 WIND GENERATORS.......400 FT HIGH.....NOT THE SIZE OF THE 150 FT TOYS ABOVE GILFACH GOCH !! SO , SURROUNDING THE WHOLE M25 WITH THEM WOULD BE A TOKEN PLAYTHING OF A SCHEME !!......EVEN IF YOU COULD PUT THEM THERE ......AND YOU COULD NOT......BECAUSE THE "THUMPING" AT NIGHT WOULD BE WORSE THAN TRAFFIC SOUNDS TO MANY PEOPLE. NOT ONLY THAT......THEY NEED HUGE CONCRETE BASES !! THEY ARE ONLY 120 FT SHORTER THAN BLACKPOOL TOWER. HOW COULD YOU ERECT 3.326 PER SQ MILE OF THOSE 400 FT MONSTERS IN SUCH A BUILT UP AREA OF ENGLAND ? THERE IS SIMPLY NO ROOM !! BUT THE BIGGEST JOKE IS THAT THE WHOLE 34,000 WOULD GENERATE ZILCH UNDER HIGH PRESSURE !!.. ...NO WIND !! NO ELECTRICITY !! .......STRONG WIND !! NO ELECTRICITY !! MANY TELL ME THAT THE READING TURBINE IS SPUN WITHOUT WIND BY FLICKING A COMPUTER SWITCH......MAYBE IN GERMANY !! PEOPLE HAVE NO CLUE HOW PATHETIC WIND ENERGY REALLY IS......COMPARED TO THE HUGE ELECTRICITY DEMAND OF THE UK.......MAINLY ENGLAND !!

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  • Zoomer  |  February 10 2013, 2:22PM

    notowind " revolving steel", actually, most of the wind turbine blades are made of fibreglass or a carbonfibre mix. Apart from that, you're about right. Wales exports electricity, blots the landscape, and pretty much receives nothing in return. Most of the UK's electricity is needed in the " golden triangle " of London and the Southeast. Why don't they install windturbines around the M25 ? Lots less voltage drop ! They've got that big wind turbine by the brewery in Reading alongside the M4 ( apparently, schhh, it hardly produces any electricity) so they know what wind turbines look like.

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  • siarad2  |  February 10 2013, 1:11PM

    Strange how windtricity supporters never give any facts when I & other gainsayers have and given alternatives. They believe religiously in being right. Their false god CO2 to which they raise angels in praise, whose wings rarely wave, isn't responding just like any god so things get worse, or so they say, meaning even more must be given to their god. Christmas island springs to mind. When these angles fail as surely they will what's next human sacrifice.

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  • notowind  |  February 10 2013, 6:29AM

    Jagermeister, Learn some COMMON SENSE for goodness sake? How can wind energy be replacing ANYTHING if the wind does not blow all the time at the right speed? If wind is blow 12 mph or above 55 mph [ even lower than that] wind turbines PRODUCE ZILCH !! Therefore tell us how ONE fossil fuel power station can EVER be closed !! Not only that, the wind can drop in evening very regularly, after a breezy day. DO YOU THINK FOSSIL FUEL STATIONS ARE SWITCHED ON AND OFF AT SHORT NOTICE ??? DREAM ON !!! THEY ARE LEFT BURNING FOSSIL FUELS.......WIND OR NO WIND !! WIND TURBINES DUPLICATE......NOT REPLACE......FOSSIL FUEL ENERGY MOST OF THE TIME !! AND THE CAPITAL AND RUNNING COSTS OF THE FOSSIL FUEL POWER STATIONS REMAIN THE SAME !! DO THEY SACK ANY FOSSIL FUEL POWER STATION WORKERS IF THE WIND IS NOT BLOWING ALL THE TIME ? BESIDES, a 475 FT MONSTER .......COMING SOON TO WRECK THE TV RECEPTION OF THE SWANSEA VALLEY .......ONLY GENERATES A PALTRY 0.5MW !! SO IT NEEDS 4000 OF THEM TO EQUAL PEMBROKE GAS FIRED POWER STATION's 2000MW !! YET WALES IS ONLY 8015 SQUARE MILES !! GOT IT ???.......AND PEMBROKE GAS-FIRED POWER STATION WAS ONLY OPENED A FEW MONTHS AGO !!!! I WONDER WHY I WASTE MY TIME TALKING TO FOOLS !!!! YOU SHOULD BE ON MR T'S PROGRAMME !! HE DEALS WITH FOOLS !

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  • notowind  |  February 10 2013, 6:06AM

    What are you wind energy supporters talking about? Lear some simple arithmetic. Wales only uses 2000 Megawatts........check it out! Yet Pembroke gas-fired power station generates 2000MW on its own. Therefore Mynydd y Gwair MUST be supplying England !! Furthermore, in South Wales alone there is Aberthaw Coal fired power station generating up to 1500 MW .Then you have gas-fired one at Uskmouth and Baglan .........plus Wylfa on Anglesey generating 1050MW ...plus 2 more gas power stions at Deeside.....WALES...YOU KNOW !!! Don't you know WHERE WALES IS?? Add it all up.....there is OVER 5000MW from Coal, gas and nuclear....but WALES ONLY USES 2000MW !!!!! Can't some of you count?? This is not even 11-Plus arithmetic !! MYNYDD Y GWAIR AND EVERY WIND FARM SCARRING WALES IS SUPPLYING ENGLAND BECAUSE ENGLAND HAS 52 MILLION PEOPLE !! ENGLAND NEEDS 50000MW ON A COLD WINTER'S DAY !! WALES USES ONLY 2000MW because we have only 3 million population. SO WALES IS BEING WRECKED TO SERVE ENGLAND !! BEFORE LONG, THERE WILL BE 100 MONSTERS FROM ABERDARE TO NEATH.....475FT HIGH !! ANOTHER LOT ON MYNYDD MARCH HYWEL ABOVE RHOS, PONTARDAWE .....MORE ON MYNYDD Y BETWS, AMMANFORD......MORE ON RHIWFAWR, PONTARDAWE .....80 MORE FROM BRECHFA FOREST [ only up the road in Carmarthen for some of the PAROCHIAL windies on here ] TO PENCADER TO LLANLLWNI. THAT IS ONLY A FEW MILES AS THE CROW FLIES....[BUT A CROW WON'T FLY VERY FAR WITH THESE GUILLOTINES IN THE SKY !!] ADD FFYNNON OER TURBINES, RESOLVEN AND MYNYDD Y GWAIR......AND AN IRON CURTAIN IS DESCENDING FAST ACROSS SOUTH WALES........FROM ABERDARE IN THE EAST......SURROUNDING SWANSEA.......TO BRECHFA FOREST UP TO LLANYBYDDER CARMARTHENSHIRE !! A VAST IRON CURTAIN OF REVOLVING STEEL VISIBLE FROM ALL HIGH POINTS.......AND DEVALUING WELSH PROPERTY ......AND WRECKING WELSH TOURISM.......ALL TO SERVE ENGLAND.......BECAUSE AN 8 YEAR OLD CHILD CAN TELL THE GREEN THICKOES THAT PEMBROKE GAS MUST BE SERVING WALES ON ITS OWN IF IT PRODUCES 2000 MW !! THE ROADS AROUND SWANSEA WILL BE BLOCKED AS HUNDREDS OF 140 FT LONG LORRY-LOADS ARE ALL POLICE-ESCORTED TO DELIVER MASSIVE LOADS ALL OVER WALES FROM SWANSEA DOCKS. 600 LORRIES 140 FT LONG ARE NEEDED TO DELIVER PARTS FOR 60 x 475 FT TURBINES [ 50 ft shorter than Blackpool Tower ] ABOVE NANT Y MOCH, ABERYSTWYTH........DID YOU KNOW THAT? THEY CAN'T GO PAST CARMARTHEN.......THEY NEED TO GO VIA NARBERTH TO ABERYSTWYTH !! THEN HUNDREDS MORE LOADS WILL BLOCK THE ROUNDABOUTS OF GLANGWILI HOSPITAL TAKING MONSTERS TO BRECHFA FOREST , CARMARTHENSHIRE.......WHERE SMALL....YES SMALL.......330 FT WIND TURBINES AT ALLTWALIS ARE ALREADY KEEPING PEOPLE AWAKE ALL NIGHT !! THEIR HOMES HAVE BEEN DEVALUED TO ALMOST NIL ! NO-ONE WILL BUY THOSE HOUSES. THEN HUNDREDS MORE 140 FT LOADS.........[MEASURE IT OUT]....WILL JAM THE HEADS OF THE VALLEYS ROAD FROM SWANSEA DOCKS TO HIRWAUN TO DELIVER THE 80 PEN Y CYMOEDD MONSTERS , WHOSE CONCRETE AND TARMAC ROADS WILL CAUSE FLASH-FLOODING IN THE VALLEYS FROM THE AFAN , OGWR , LLYNFI TO THE RHONDDA FAWR, RHONDDA FACH AND CYNON !! IF YOU DON'T SEE THAT......TELL ME HOW YOU CAN REPLACE PEAT, MOORLAND AND FORESTRY WITH CONCRETE AND TARMAC......WITHOUT CAUSING FLASH FLOODS DOWNSTREAM ? ON TOP OF ALL THESE 700 WIND TURBINES 475 FT HIGH ARE HEADED FOR MONTGOMERYSHIRE......[HEARD OF IT? IT IS CALLED WALES !!!!] TO SERVE MANCHESTER.........YET THERE IS NOT A SINGLE WIND TURBINE IN SHROPSHIRE BETWEEN WALES AND MANCHESTER !! GET AN EDUCATION FOR GOODNESS SAKE !! MONTGOMERYSHIRE , OR SIR DREFALDWYN, IS ONLY 790 SQUARE MILES...YET CARWYN QUISLING JONES WANTS TO DUMP UP TO 700 WIND MONSTERS AS BIG AS BLACKPOOL TOWER [ ALMOST] ON IT TO SERVE MANCHESTER !! OF COURSE, THERE ARE NO LABOUR VOTES THERE !! AND LOOK AT YOUR MYNYDD Y GWAIR...WHO OWNS IT?? THE NIMBY LORD OF GOWER, OF COURSE, OTHERWISE CALLED THE DUKE OF BEAUFORT WHO HAS 75 SQUARE MILES OF THE COTSWOLDS WITHOUT ONE WIND TURBINE !! WAKE UP!

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  • maxmin  |  February 09 2013, 3:29PM

    I've just seen a report by Bluff Bluster and Bogglesnatch that shows that 101% of people who aren't quite qualified but are doing a school project, believe that windfarms are great - mainly because teacher told them to say that. Windfarms are another myth just like re-cycling that has only today blown up in everyones - except of course intelligent people who knew all along it was a con - faces with the admission that most material that has been carefully sorted by the householder ends up in landfill anyway, but apparently each type of rubbish ( like anything uttered by a certain poster on these boards) has it's own spot in the pit! There's nice. Seriously though we keep hearing from AGW fanatics that we must embrace wind power because 'What else can we do?' Thats just like old time surgery where if you had a badly broken leg they amputated it 'Because what else can we do?' Well as we now know there are many things that can be done, and future generations will not thank us for bankrupting the country and failing to supply power just because we listened to the 'What else can we do? merchants!

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  • Neathboy234  |  February 09 2013, 3:29PM

    What i'd like to know does Glyn Morgan do a lot of hill walking!!!!.

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  • johndavies  |  February 09 2013, 2:08PM

    Jagermeister you say - ( "You saying that we are chucking vast sums of money away on wind farms, tell me where you are getting this information from ?" ) Loads of info available if you look for it. Start here - http://tinyurl.com/az2o8mn then search rest of this site. Also- • This site gives instantaneous % of total per fuel UK Grid electric demand & generation by fuels & prices Tick boxes 17 & 18 in table/graph list (very clear & simple- But it only works in Explorer or Firefox.) http://tinyurl.com/6jws7j • Why is wind power so expensive? An economic analysis. July 2011. Professor Gordon Hughes. School of Economics. University of Edinburgh.- 41 pg pdf. http://tinyurl.com/aarzzox • Cost of generating electricity Royal Academy of Engineering. 2004. 6pg. http://tinyurl.com/23s2go • Levelised cost estimates for electricity generation Oct 2011 http://tinyurl.com/a4ke7kw 37pg • The Hidden Costs of Wind Electricity - 2012, American Tradition Institute 32pg pdf http://tinyurl.com/aob6c39 • The hidden fuel costs of wind generated electricity. K. de Groot & C. le Pair Holland "Based on the German situation with 23 GW installed wind power we show that it becomes doubtful whether wind energy results in any fuel saving and CO2 emission reduction. What remains are the extra investments in wind energy." http://tinyurl.com/b6pfwqo • WIND INTERMITTENCY AND. THE PRODUCTION TAX CREDIT: A HIGH COST SUBSIDY FOR LOW VALUE POWER. Jonathan A. Lesser - USA Oct 16, 2012 http://tinyurl.com/bw4c7lm Also the websites at - OFGM DECC Eurostats That's just for starters, lots more available. Subsidy levels for various generators for 2010. Wind - £0.7bn per year for 2.6% of our electricity = £0.27bn per % delivered. Nuclear - £0.5bn per year for 20% of our electricity = £0.025bn per % delivered. Oil, gas and coal - £3.6bn per year for 75% of our electricity = £ 0.048bn per % delivered. So, the subsidy wind receives is an order of magnitude GREATER than Nuclear or Fossil fuels. In excess of £1 billion in wind subsidies was given away in 2012, … and the ROC & FIT schemes will continue to pay cash to developers at these levels, increasing year on year until 2037.

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